Eye contact and emotions: SA or Asperger's?

[Kon]

I was wondering, I sometimes feel these kinda thoughts sorta fit me in some ways which is why I hate being too close with people but I'm really not sure. Are these feelings common for people with SAD? If not, what are the reasons why eye contact is sometimes so difficult for SAD sufferers?

"Intriguingly, an adolescent with Asperger syndrome made the following comment on making eye contact with others: “You always feel as if the eyes are actually burning into you. . . . You can either look between their eyes or you can look at the mouth and you don’t feel as if they are actually burning right into you” . Gernsbacher and Frymiare (2005) provided several similar examples of people with autism reporting that it is painful for them to make eye contact because of the emotional significance of the eyes."

"The result might be that avoidance of social proximity would become the default coping mechanism for some individuals with autism. One person with high-functioning autism has described “instinctive attempts to correct a feeling of having been ‘engulfed’ ”. She explained that “when my sense of ‘existence of other’ . . . became too intense, I felt . . . swept up and lost in it but also suffocated”."

http://cogprints.org/6799/1/TPRVol59No3-SMITH.pdf

[Severijn]

I used to have that too. I don't think you have asperger/autism, but a case of SAD, which is a heavy burden in life! The reason why looking into people's eyes is so 'painful' is because intense feelings of shame, low self-worth and self-esteem. The good thing is that you can cure these feelings and your SAD, but it will take work. Have you ever tried self-improvement or therapy?

[Duke of Prunes]

Can you make eye contact when you're drunk? Autistic people are still autistic when they're drunk.

[Kon]

Originally Posted by Duke of Prunes

Can you make eye contact when you're drunk? Autistic people are still autistic when they're drunk.

It depends on the person. If I don't like them, no. If I like them, yes.

[Kon]

Originally Posted by Severijn

The reason why looking into people's eyes is so 'painful' is because intense feelings of shame, low self-worth and self-esteem. The good thing is that you can cure these feelings and your SAD, but it will take work. Have you ever tried self-improvement or therapy?

Here's the thing. Some of my parent's friends/my relatives come over to my house. I hate talking to them and I hate shaking their hands and hugging them, etc. I feel very uncomfortable looking at their eyes. I don't feel it's because of low self-worth or shame. In fact, I kinda feel like I'm a better person than them in an egocentric kinda of way. But I just think they're judgemental people which they are and I don't want to have anything to do with them. And I feel like I'm faking it and we both know it. And I hate being fake. It makes me anxious. I have trouble lying. Not sure if this makes sense.

[artistgyrrl]

I have issues with making eye contact, or holding it. My eyes will dart all around instead because it feels to me like people are searching into me. Seeing to much? I dont know how to really explain it, once I know you I am fine though. It drives me crazy because I know avoiding eye contact is like you are hiding something, which im not trying to do but it feels to "open" completely to hold eye contact with someone I just met.

[Kon]

Originally Posted by artistgyrrl

I have issues with making eye contact, or holding it. My eyes will dart all around instead because it feels to me like people are searching into me. Seeing to much? I dont know how to really explain it, once I know you I am fine though. It drives me crazy because I know avoiding eye contact is like you are hiding something, which im not trying to do but it feels to "open" completely to hold eye contact with someone I just met.

Exactly. I feel like they're violating my space. I hate when people stand behind me or too close. I even hate holding hands or kissing in public with my SO. I hate when others do it also. I don't know why?

[LaBibi05]

I have t hard time looking people in the eye too. Even my own bf. Thinking about it now I'm not really sure why I have such a problem with it.

[Nibbler]

"The reason why looking into people's eyes is so 'painful' is because intense feelings of shame, low self-worth and self-esteem"

Probly couldnt of described my thoughts and feelings better myself i cant even look my own mother and father in the eye never have somtimes i go whole conversations with out making any eye contact what so ever...

[Recipe For Disaster]

i used to be able to make eye contact (although i always got anxious about when it was appropriate to look away) but after i withdrew from benzos, i am finding it very hard. i feel like when i make eye contact, people can see into me and see that i am not having an emotional reaction to them and they will think i am not human (since i cant explain to everyone i meet that withdrawal has affected my ability to feel emotion).

[Severijn]

Originally Posted by Kon

Here's the thing. Some of my parent's friends/my relatives come over to my house. I hate talking to them and I hate shaking their hands and hugging them, etc. I feel very uncomfortable looking at their eyes. I don't feel it's because of low self-worth or shame. In fact, I kinda feel like I'm a better person than them in an egocentric kinda of way. But I just think they're judgemental people which they are and I don't want to have anything to do with them. And I feel like I'm faking it and we both know it. And I hate being fake. It makes me anxious. I have trouble lying. Not sure if this makes sense.

Sure it makes sense. Living with anxiety is terrible sometimes, and I know all about feeling fake. I just know too little about you to give advice, but if you have SA there is a solution no doubt.

[Sorou]

Originally Posted by Nibbler

"The reason why looking into people's eyes is so 'painful' is because intense feelings of shame, low self-worth and self-esteem"

Probly couldnt of described my thoughts and feelings better myself i cant even look my own mother and father in the eye never have somtimes i go whole conversations with out making any eye contact what so ever...

I know very much how you feel. I have dinner with my parents almost daily and usually, I sit with my head down and only look at them whenever they address me with questions about my day. Even then, I get uncomfortable and rather keep my explanations short.

[Sloppy Joe]

Originally Posted by Kon

It depends on the person. If I don't like them, no. If I like them, yes.

I doubt it's Asperger's. Eye contact is super hard for me too and my level of anxiety has gotten a lot lower. Nowadays my issue is that I either forget to make eye contact, or feel super awkward and don't know how to do it. To me eye contact is something highly personal.

[Kon]

Originally Posted by Sloppy Joe

I doubt it's Asperger's. Eye contact is super hard for me too and my level of anxiety has gotten a lot lower. Nowadays my issue is that I either forget to make eye contact, or feel super awkward and don't know how to do it. To me eye contact is something highly personal.

I'm not sure either. Yesterday, I went to a wedding. I wasn't really anxious. I could make eye contact with most people but had trouble looking at women that I found really attractive. I think it's because I fear they can "see" my thoughts (that I might be staring)? I'm thinking this is normal but I'm taking Lexapro, so I'm not sure how I would react without it. My wife told me though, that in the past I kept my eyes/head down and I wouldn't look at many people directly in the eyes as if I was scared/embarassed?

Here's some interesting quotes from the Asperger's forum:

"I think eyes reveal too much about people, and it can be rude to know what's going on in their heads, otherwise I'm completely hopeless at knowing what's going on...To me eye contact seems a little intimate because the eyes show pure raw emotions, at least part of the time, so making eye contact with a stranger is awkward for me but can be a necessary and very powerful way of backing a point. If I say something exceedingly important, I make eye contact to show exactly what's going on in my head. That might be another thing, I don't usually like people invading my personal thoughts. My head is a place that isn't open to the general public, and I mean the emotional part, everything else(i.e. the logical, organized, factual part) is free admission."

"In most other animals on earth, a direct stare into the face of another is construed as a threat. Neurotypical (Non-Aspies) humans are the only ones who think you're being unfriendly, inattentive and evasive if you prefer NOT to meet their eyes. In the same way, most other animals bare their teeth as a threat. Neurotypical humans think of it as a friendly sign. Up until the age of about seven, I was scared when people gave me that bared-teeth sneer they call a smile. Even now I don't much like it, but I've learnt to copy it and not to respond negatively when somebody uses it at me. We are told we are the ones with the problem, but it seems to me that neurotypical humans are the ones whose culture breaks all the rules of the animal kingdom."

http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/show....php?tid=20974

And this when talking about performance anxiety and eyes on the performer from another link:

"On an even more primitive level, we are hard-wired to get nervous when someone - or something - is staring at us. Predators stare at their prey before devouring it. Staring matches are a way to establish hierarchies within social units, both human and primate. From this perspective, people who don't get freaked out when being eyeballed would seem to be the odd birds."

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/selling-shyness.htm

[Sloppy Joe]

Originally Posted by Kon

"In most other animals on earth, a direct stare into the face of another is construed as a threat. Neurotypical (Non-Aspies) humans are the only ones who think you're being unfriendly, inattentive and evasive if you prefer NOT to meet their eyes. In the same way, most other animals bare their teeth as a threat. Neurotypical humans think of it as a friendly sign. Up until the age of about seven, I was scared when people gave me that bared-teeth sneer they call a smile. Even now I don't much like it, but I've learnt to copy it and not to respond negatively when somebody uses it at me. We are told we are the ones with the problem, but it seems to me that neurotypical humans are the ones whose culture breaks all the rules of the animal kingdom."

So do you find it threatening when someone smiles?

Keep in mind also that Aspergers is a syndrome and there's a lot more that goes with it than no eye contact.

[LALoner]

My problem with eye contact is that if you do it wrong men think you want to fight them and women think you want to molest them. Poorly done eye contact seems like staring to the other person and people hate being stared at. Since I'm not good at making eye contact I just don't even try.

[chinatownbus]

I have a hard time with eye contact too. My Dr. thinks I have Asperger's but I think I have social anxiety. I can read people's facial expressions and know what they are feeling right away, something I believe that people with asperger's cant really do. My problem with eye contact is that I can only make fleeting contact with another person's eyes it makes me nervous to have sustained eye contact. I have this even with people close to me. I just can't be relaxed around people enough to have intimate eye contact at all. Does anyone else have this issue of not being relaxed around other people?

[CarouselTheater]

I doubt it's Asperger's. Most likely your anxiety is keeping you from making eye contact because you don't want to make the other person think you are staring at them. I know because I do the same thing, and that is the only conclusion I could come up with.

[Kon]

Originally Posted by chinatownbus

My Dr. thinks I have Asperger's but I think I have social anxiety. I can read people's facial expressions and know what they are feeling right away, something I believe that people with asperger's cant really do. My problem with eye contact is that I can only make fleeting contact with another person's eyes it makes me nervous to have sustained eye contact. I have this even with people close to me. I just can't be relaxed around people enough to have intimate eye contact at all. Does anyone else have this issue of not being relaxed around other people?

I actually score much higher on the Asperger's tests than on the SAD test but my ASD-type symptoms don't affect my life as much as my SAD. From my understanding, some people with Asperger's can read facial expressions. I really don't know about myself. I'm good at it now. I'm not sure how I was when I was younger? The thing about Asperger's is I don't think there's much therapy available, especially if you're older. But with SAD, there is. I'm very relaxed around some people. Those people I often don't pay as much attention to them, at all, unless they interest me in some way. I have trouble pretending to listen. Sometimes I'm very rude. I treat them as if they don't exist and yet I feel sorry for treating like that? My father is the same way. This has nothing to do with anxiety.

[chinatownbus]

Originally Posted by Kon

I actually score much higher on the Asperger's tests than on the SAD test but my ASD-type symptoms don't affect my life as much as my SAD. From my understanding, some people with Asperger's can read facial expressions. I really don't know about myself. I'm good at it now. I'm not sure how I was when I was younger? The thing about Asperger's is I don't think there's much therapy available, especially if you're older. But with SAD, there is. I'm very relaxed around some people. Those people I often don't pay as much attention to them, at all, unless they interest me in some way. I have trouble pretending to listen. Sometimes I'm very rude. I treat them as if they don't exist and yet I feel sorry for treating like that? My father is the same way. This has nothing to do with anxiety.

Do you think you have Asperger's Kon, and if so why?