Creep-Shaming - Social Anxiety Forum
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post #1 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Creep-Shaming

I can probably count the amount of times I've used the word "creeper" in this forum (three or five, give or take), and those times I got about a dozen responses from male users saying things like, "augh, I hate that word" or "why is it that women always use that word?"

Well, turns out the MRA (Men's Rights Activists) are sick of that word, too. They call it "creep-shaming." One user in Reddit says, "the ability to label men as ‘creepy' is just one privilege that women enjoy, and a constant source of fear of ostracizing that all men must fear in our society." Creep is "the worst casual insult that can be tossed at a guy" writes Jeremy Paul Gordon at the Hairpin. The users insist that the word is used particularly by women to put men down.

I read this on Jezebel.com and the writer made this really interesting comment about how it's the only word that doesn't have any mysogynistic roots.

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Jeremy Paul Gordon specifically compared the term to "*****," "d*uchebag," and "*sshole." The first two words, when directed at a man, insult him by comparing him either to a vagina or a device used to clean one; their pejorative power lies in the way they feminize the guy who gets called one of these names. "*******," as the historian Rictor Norton has suggested, is rooted in a derogatory term for men who allowed themselves to be anally *****ed. A man who gets penetrated behaves like a woman and is labeled as feminine — a fate that we raise small American boys to fear more than almost anything else. (This is why, of course, words like "b*tch" or "p*ssy" when used by one man to another, are so much more likelier to lead to blows than "d*ck" or "pr*ck." Men are unlikely to be enraged by references to their own anatomy, only to a woman's.)
Apparently, "creep" is more hurtful because it describes how the woman feels around said man. Conversely, the listed insults simply describe their actions, or how they appear in the moment.

The writer at Jezebel ends his article with this remark, though:
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This, of course, is why some guys hate the word so much; it forces men to reflect carefully about how they make women feel. No wonder then that so many guys are campaigning against "creep-shaming." After all, the sooner the term becomes socially unacceptable, the sooner men can get back to not having to think about women's boundaries.
Let's not jump to generalizations about men or women and have a, um, civil argument (because, let's face it, it'll get to that). Although what I'd really like is your POV on how the word makes you feel (guys) and who you usually describe with this word (gals).

http://jezebel.com/5903883/why-guys-...-called-creepy
http://www.reddit.com/r/BigotryShowc...ng_for/c2u3310

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post #2 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 11:59 AM
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MRA? lol...
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post #3 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 12:03 PM
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Instead of acknowledging that the word is actually hurtful, the article attempts to flip the situation on its head to fit the narrative of "men = oppressors, women = victims" and portrays men who complain about it as whiny babies who are bitter about not being allowed to rape women or something. The fact is, the word IS legitimately hurtful and most of the time is used for purely malicious purposes or for overly judgemental reasons. I doubt there is any guy on this forum who hasn't had this word used against them in situations where it was totally unwarranted. The fact that some guys are actually disrespectful to women doesn't mean that the rest of the guys who complain about this word are too.
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post #4 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 12:11 PM
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It is a very hurtful word as it pretty much denounces everything about you as a man and as a person. It's a quick and simply way for a woman to proclaim that you have failed to be impressive, appealing or even satisfactory in any way you hoped to be.

And there's no good comeback.

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post #5 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 12:17 PM
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I think the problem is that women use the term to describe men who happen to make them uncomfortable, not solely those who intend to make them uncomfortable. Many men who get labeled a "creep" are often unaware of exactly what they've done to deserve the insult. It's an attack on one's personality or awkward social skills or perhaps their looks; things that can't be helped or aren't known how to help. It's taken as an insult towards deficiencies, not actions.
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post #6 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 12:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ape in space View Post
Instead of acknowledging that the word is actually hurtful, the article attempts to flip the situation on its head to fit the narrative of "men = oppressors, women = victims" and portrays men who complain about it as whiny babies who are bitter about not being allowed to rape women or something. The fact is, the word IS legitimately hurtful and most of the time is used for purely malicious purposes or for overly judgemental reasons. I doubt there is any guy on this forum who hasn't had this word used against them in situations where it was totally unwarranted. The fact that some guys are actually disrespectful to women doesn't mean that the rest of the guys who complain about this word are too.
All insults hurt. The writer is pointing to something else: the ridiculousness of the term "creep-shaming."

The latter part of your post, if not all of it, is completely irrelevant to the article.

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post #7 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ape in space View Post
Instead of acknowledging that the word is actually hurtful, the article attempts to flip the situation on its head to fit the narrative of "men = oppressors, women = victims" and portrays men who complain about it as whiny babies who are bitter about not being allowed to rape women or something. The fact is, the word IS legitimately hurtful and most of the time is used for purely malicious purposes or for overly judgemental reasons. I doubt there is any guy on this forum who hasn't had this word used against them in situations where it was totally unwarranted. The fact that some guys are actually disrespectful to women doesn't mean that the rest of the guys who complain about this word are too.
^ this.
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post #8 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 12:30 PM
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Imo The jezebel.com article is inaccurate.
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post #9 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Einangra View Post
It is a very hurtful word as it pretty much denounces everything about you as a man and as a person. It's a quick and simply way for a woman to proclaim that you have failed to be impressive, appealing or even satisfactory in any way you hoped to be.

And there's no good comeback.
I don't think that's it. If it's how she feel around him (i.e. it makes her feel uncomfortable), what does that have to do about the guy not being able to impress her?

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I think the problem is that women use the term to describe men who happen to make them uncomfortable, not solely those who intend to make them uncomfortable. Many men who get labeled a "creep" are often unaware of exactly what they've done to deserve the insult. It's an attack on one's personality or awkward social skills or perhaps their looks; things that can't be helped or aren't known how to help. It's taken as an insult towards deficiencies, not actions.
Well, how would that work when I use the term online? One of the times that pops up is when I simply wrote "creeper" after a commenter said he wanted to go to a high school to look at "fresh-faced 18 year-olds." I'm pretty certain that can be "helped" and that it's "known" to the receiver.

I think most SAS guys take it personally because they believe the word is commonly used to describe guys that are quiet...

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post #10 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 12:36 PM
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Imo The jezebel.com article is inaccurate.
That site's inaccurate about a lot of stuff.

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post #11 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 12:37 PM
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MRA (Men's Rights Activists)
they need to find a different abbreviation. really confusing when i see that whether it's talking about men's rights or magnetic resonance angiography

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post #12 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 12:39 PM
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they need to find a different abbreviation. really confusing when i see that whether it's talking about men's rights or magnetic resonance angiography
or Magnanimous (or any state beginning with M) Rifle Association.

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post #13 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Imo The jezebel.com article is inaccurate.
How so? Because you said so?

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That site's inaccurate about a lot of stuff.
Let's share.

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Originally Posted by cold fission cure View Post
they need to find a different abbreviation. really confusing when i see that whether it's talking about men's rights or magnetic resonance angiography
Word. Let's contact them.

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post #14 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 12:49 PM
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I do feel sorry for guys who get labelled "creepy". They are usually just unattractive and geeky guys who want to approach women like any other guy would. I doubt any women would label johnny depp as creepy if he was hitting on them even though he is a bit awkward and shy aswell.
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post #15 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 01:15 PM
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You should see the way how men behave whenever they see someone attractive. I'm not saying I'm attractive because I know I'm not anything special, but I have had random men follow me around a store, invade my personal space without my permission, or can't keep their eyes off of me even though I caught them staring at me. Now those men have every right ti be labeled as creeps because really they do act like creeps around women. Not all of them but a lot of them do. It all depends on the way how a male behaves around a female. Giving a smile, striking up a friendly conversation, or giving a nice compliment is probably not creepy. But stalking a woman or staring at her like a vulture is another thing. Creepy.
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post #16 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 01:20 PM Thread Starter
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You should see the way how men behave whenever they see someone attractive. I'm not saying I'm attractive because I know I'm not anything special, but I have had random men follow me around a store or can't keep their eyes off of me even though I caught them staring at me. Now those men have every right ti be labeled as creeps because really they do act like creeps around women. Not all of them but a lot of them do. It all depends on the way how a male behaves around a female. Giving a smile, striking up a friendly conversation, or giving a nice compliment is probably not creepy. But stalking a woman or staring at her like a vulture is another thing. Creepy.
Exactly, but some guys think it's automatically because the guy is quiet.

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post #17 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 01:42 PM
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Hmm, a bit of a side issue but I think we should take most of the stuff on jezebel.com with a pinch of salt - a number of articles are written in such a way that they are just needlessly inflammatory to try and rile up the predominantly feminist readership. (trolling their own users I guess ?)

A good recent example of this here:
http://jezebel.com/5901998/german-wo...-her-apartment

A 'charming' piece belittling a man who was forced to have sex with a woman against his will (e.g. rape) Thankfully though on this occasion the regular commenters saw through the charade and quite rightly pointed out that any form of sexual abuse is wrong no matter what the gender is of the victim (hats off to them!)

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post #18 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paloma M View Post
You should see the way how men behave whenever they see someone attractive. I'm not saying I'm attractive because I know I'm not anything special, but I have had random men follow me around a store or can't keep their eyes off of me even though I caught them staring at me. Now those men have every right ti be labeled as creeps because really they do act like creeps around women. Not all of them but a lot of them do. It all depends on the way how a male behaves around a female. Giving a smile, striking up a friendly conversation, or giving a nice compliment is probably not creepy. But stalking a woman or staring at her like a vulture is another thing. Creepy.
takes time to approach a girl sometimes. should i use the "do you floss before or after brushing" question or the "jealous girlfriend" opener? do i approach from a 45 degree or 30 degree angle? and how quickly? do i wear the feather boa or ditch it for the furry top hat? maybe you changed your breathing pattern and he has to calibrate his approach. maybe your aura shifted color at the last second and ruined his approach and he's hanging back, re-grouping, modifying, calibrating, calibrating, always calibrating (he wishes so bad he had a user's manual). maybe he needs to post for advice on a pick-up forum and he's f5'ing waiting for a response. don't judge.

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post #19 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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Hmm, a bit of a side issue but I think we should take most of the stuff on jezebel.com with a pinch of salt - a number of articles are written in such a way that they are just needlessly inflammatory to try and rile up the predominantly feminist readership. (trolling their own users I guess ?)

A good recent example of this here:
http://jezebel.com/5901998/german-wo...-her-apartment

A 'charming' piece belittling a man who was forced to have sex with a woman against his will (e.g. rape) Thankfully though on this occasion the regular commenters saw through the charade and quite rightly pointed out that any form of sexual abuse is wrong no matter what the gender is of the victim (hats off to them!)
That was his (Doug Barry is mainly a writer at Gawker) opinion on an article. He reported the issue accurately, but also made his idiotic opinion open. The opinion is what one should take with a grain of salt.

I never said take Hugo Schwyzer's opinion as fact. I wanted posters to think about it.

I don't see how the fact that it's a feminist blog makes a difference either if what we're looking at is the facts (the history of the terminonolgies and the reporting of MRA). Not to mention Hugo Schwyzer is the founder of Good Men's Project, so the opinion is not completely bias.

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post #20 of 284 (permalink) Old 04-21-2012, 02:11 PM
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takes time to approach a girl sometimes. should i use the "do you floss before or after brushing" question or the "jealous girlfriend" opener? do i approach from a 45 degree or 30 degree angle? and how quickly? do i wear the feather boa or ditch it for the furry top hat? maybe you changed your breathing pattern and he has to calibrate his approach. maybe your aura shifted color at the last second and ruined his approach and he's hanging back, re-grouping, modifying, calibrating, calibrating, always calibrating (he wishes so bad he had a user's manual). maybe he needs to post for advice on a pick-up forum and he's f5'ing waiting for a response. don't judge.
Yeah, are you talking about flirting here or stalking? It really could go either way. o_O
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