Good touch

[Atticus]

Do you think you were held and stroked and talked to enough as an infant. I know you can't say for sure, but based on your parent's interactions with younger siblings or grandchildren, or their comfort with touch with people in general, you may get an idea.

I was talking to my sister yesterday and this subject came up. In my case (hers too), I have to believe I wasn't given much of that kind of nurturing. My folks were fairly cold and distant and hardly touched each other or us in the years I remember.

I think this can be a real issue in those pre-verbal years that set us up for feeling good (loved and cared for) or not so good. Having been well nurtured in this way can help inocculate a kid against some of the inevitable verbal lashings he or she will get a bit later on.

So....

[WineKitty]

I am almost certain that I wasnt. I was the youngest of six children so the thrill of having kids definitely wore off by the time I came around. And my parents are rather distant people. But, being that my mother is the hospital right now I dont wish to trash talk her too much. She was an abused child and so was my dad; I dont think they knew any better.

[coldmorning]

I sort of speculate along those lines. A lot of people with SA (if they believe their SA comes from environmental factors) tend to blame their school years. But there are people who were bullied early on yet grew up to be outgoing. I was not really bullied, yet I was still extremely sensitive to anything remotely critical from my peers. Could it be the nurturing you receive in your first years affect your sensitivity to this stuff? Some psychologists will say your first year is your most formative. I don't really know how true this is. But I also remember reading about studies with monkeys that received little touch and hugging growing up to be very fearful of other monkeys.

I don't think I was given much hugging and touch as an infant. I have one younger sibling who I don't remember if she was. But my dad was orphaned at an early age. He grew up in an Asian country at war and there were lots of orphans then so he never got adopted or had real parents. Instead, his older siblings raised him so he always had this attitude that kids just sort of raise themselves. He was very hands off as a parent and I'd guess my parents weren't the most affectionate while I was growing up.

[Atticus]

My parents have both died, and that gives me some objectivity, I guess. I don't know their full stories, but I've concluded that they did the best that they could with us.

I wish your mom well, Penny.

[Atticus]

That's what I wonder about too, cold morning. My memory of my childhood isn't all that negative. Yet, from my earliest memories I behaved in ways that I now would say are indicative of someone who feels deeply flawed. Its like I was primed, maybe by a somewhat sterile infancy, to see and hear fairly typical messages from family and peers and teachers as being quite harsh. Typical messages aren't all that great, but like you said, many people deal with them and seem to thrive. Some even do well with crappy experiences.

[kpiper0101]

My parents were both pretty reserved and not very demonstrative, yet by their actions, I never doubted I was loved. I'm the youngest of eight so I faired better attention wise I suspect, having lots of older people around me. I know for sure neither one of them ever said the words, "I love you," to me. I understood though that it was hard for them, but I took it as it was hard because it meant something to them not because they didn't love me. It was awkward so I never could say it outloud to them either, I'd get that big lump in my throat. I tried to when my mom was dying of cancer, but just tears came out, silent ones of course. I didn't feel that it was appropriate to show intense emotion in our home, whether it be positive or negative. I think mom and dad were uncomfortable with it, actually I know they were. Expressing feelings was not their area of expertise for sure, but they clearly lived their lives for us kids I feel like they were such good parents, I hate to knock them in any way, but it is true, if I had to name an area of weakness, they probably could have used a little work in the affection department. Our family used humor as affection I think -- that's how I took it anyway . . . maybe they were just laughing at me. :O)

[Still Waters]

I think you've really hit on something here,Atticus. I'm not really bonded to my parents and I think this is a big reason why. My parents were very distant-I always got the impression they viewed affection with a sort of revulsion. A sort of indulgent neediness-a weakness. When my first son was born and my Mom came to visit for a week she could'nt understand why I would hold him when it was'nt absolutely necessary.She felt he should only be held if I was feeding him or trying to stop him from crying. I wanted to hold him-for the sheer joy of holding that sweet,warm little body and looking at that beautiful face. The few hugs I've given them or recieved as an adult have felt highly uncomfortable and like something that must be gotten over with quickly. The family is the first little "lab" where we discover who we are,how to form relationships and what it means to be human. A childs physical growth can be stunted if they don't recieve basic nutrition and if affection and attention is'nt given there can be an emotional stunting. A lack of bonding with the family early on,causes a lack of connection with humanity later. A general unease and warriness around others.- A basic disconnect.- I would bet this is a pretty common theme among us here. I don't think you have to have tons of people to adore you when you're a child. But,I think you need at least one who's kind of gaga over you. You need to feel valuable to someone-otherwise you grow up feeling you have no value.If I had never had kids- I would have wondered if I was capable of loving anyone.

[Maslow]

Originally Posted by Atticus

Do you think you were held and stroked and talked to enough as an infant.

Wasn't that Portnoy's Complaint?

Just kidding. You seem to be looking for answers, Atticus, but what is the question?

[Atticus]

Originally Posted by Maslow

Wasn't that Portnoy's Complaint?

Just kidding. You seem to be looking for answers, Atticus, but what is the question?

The same question I've always asked, which is "Why am I so F'd up.?" I've learned to ask the question in more refined terms, but that's about it.

What's weird is that right now I'm asking a lot of questions and I feel like I'm coming up with useful answers. Most times in the past I'd ask questions out of boredom almost, engaging in a sort of mental masturbation. Which brings us full circle back to Portnoy's Complaint.

[Maslow]

Yeah but it is it low self-esteem, dissatisfaction with life, dissatisfaction with relationships... ?

I'm f'd up, too, although having someone to love over the past few years has helped me a lot. I'm still f'd up, but someone is able to love me in spite of it, so it's not that bad.

As John Lennon sang:
No one I think is in my tree. I mean it must be high or low. That is you can't you know tune in but it's all right. That is I think it's not too bad

[Atticus]

That's a good question. I guess I'm retelling my story (to myself) in terms that I'm more comfortable with. It seems important that I tell myself the truth, but I'm not always sure what's true, so I ask questions here and privately to myself. I've always done this, but for the first time in my life I'm liking the answers, or if I can't like them, at least I can accept them.

[lilly]

I was abused by my father and my brothers and mother were too. I feel this must have a lot to do with how weird I am.
I feel very affectionate no matter what though; I still have that feeling that I want and need affection yet I've grown up around non-demonstrative people - so that's really difficult.
I'll bet that a caring infant-hood (or whatever you call it :0) would insulate you a lot and get you started up in life in a nice way.

[mind_games]

Hmm as an infant I think I was well loved. Then I spent about 10 years with my mum only before reuniting as a family again. I think those years with just my mum have a lot to do with my SA or at least setting the foundation for it. As I grew up (say 10 onwards) we became less communicative physically and verbally. We aren't a family for hugs or kisses for example except when we are about to separate for an extended period of time. Then it becomes very awkward when I have to hug someone -even if its my mum.

[kpiper0101]

My second son was diagnosed with autism when he was very little. As an infant he would stiffen and arch his back when you picked him up, and as he got a little bigger he would never put his arms out to be picked up or anything. He was a very easy baby because he wouldn't cry unless he was hungry. He didn't demand attention like most kids, and didn't speak at all until he was four. I was heartbroken though at the thought that he might never beable to fully bond with me. I started out right from the beginning carrying him in a snuggly pack almost constantly because he was adopted and born drug-affected and for some reason I thought it would be healing to keep him close like that, and I just doubled my efforts after his diagnosis, really forcing myself on him, snuggling him to death. I moved him to a backpack when he got bigger, and at age five he was still wanting me to take him for hours long walks like that, but he finally got too heavy. Anyway, we're very bonded, and the last time he was evaluated (he's 9 now), he no longer met the criteria for autism as far as social shortcomings. It's pretty clear it wasn't my social skills that helped him, so I think there really is something to human contact -- it connects in ways that words don't. I don't know that I'll ever get him out of my bed now, but I have a son who is very connected to me, and connected to the rest of the world. Eventhough he still has some autistic characteristics, he does a lot better than I do socially.

[mind_games]

Thats nice to hear kpiper0101 indeed there is much to communication that isn't verbal or written or even visual really.

[Amelia]

Originally Posted by Atticus

Do you think you were held and stroked and talked to enough as an infant.

It's a difficult question to answer because, for one thing, it depends on what "enough" means. A person might grow up to have a rather withdrawn personality (like me), not because of anything their parents failed to do, but just because that's what they're like.

Although my family were not particularly "touchy feely" when I was a child, I did not have an uncaring upbringing. They gave me plenty of emotional support. As an infant, I'm pretty sure that I got plenty of physical affection. The family photographs, for instance, seem to show that. I also started talking relatively early, so I'm also fairly sure that I was talked to quite a bit.

[hopena]

I was held a lot, and loved, as a baby. Certain things happened in my childhood that left me with anxiety attacks, social anxiety, etc... now, it doesn't matter how well I'm doing, and how nice people are to me, I always manage to sabotage it.

[Alone42Long]

Originally Posted by mind_games

Thats nice to hear kpiper0101 indeed there is much to communication that isn't verbal or written or even visual really.

I second that kpiper101 . That's fantastic to hear the connection & progress you've made with your son.