The future of atheism...

[The Silent 1]

Originally Posted by Quinn the Eskimo

Yes, if I had told that to myself even.. three years ago, I would have thought I sounded just as odd.

But in only three years time my entire system of belief and thought changed and I went through much spiritual learning and direct experience that I would have never seen coming

it is my belief, yes, that we all ready do know God. it's more than just a preconceived notion. there are many blocks and barriers that we, ourselves, have put up in the way of that. one is repression. when someone represses something, in psychology, the entire thing is forgotten completely... there also exists things such as amnesia and alzheimers, which are just more examples of people forgetting things that used to be a basic part of their reality...

Scientists will tell you there is no evidence, yes. And there is none that you can immediately see, touch, smell, taste, or hear. However, there are still many people who know God and have seen the evidence. Most of these people, believe it or not, are famous/ at the top ranks of society. That does not mean ALL are.

confusing, I know, it really is

I'm not sure what you mean by know god, but I think this sort of thinking puts way too much faith in the subjective emotions and experiences of human beings. Our feelings are caused ultimately by ourselves. So when a person tells me that they have "felt" god or experienced his presence, then there isn't much more to say. I don't doubt that they may have felt something, but I see no reason to agree with their interpretation of what caused that experience. After all Christians, Buddhists, and Muslims all have these kinds of things happen to them and conveniently the way they interpret it usually falls in line with their preconceived notions of god and "spirituality". I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want to be fooled by emotional responses to experiences people don't really understand. Human emotions are too easily fooled.

[Quinn the Eskimo]

Originally Posted by The Silent 1

I'm not sure what you mean by know god

I know

but I think this sort of thinking puts way too much faith in the subjective emotions and experiences of human beings. Our feelings are caused ultimately by ourselves. So when a person tells me that they have "felt" god or experienced his presence, then there isn't much more to say. I don't doubt that they may have felt something, but I see no reason to agree with their interpretation of what caused that experience. After all Christians, Buddhists, and Muslims all have these kinds of things happen to them and conveniently the way they interpret it usually falls in line with their preconceived notions of god and "spirituality".

I had no preconceived notions of God or spirituality. I dont find God to be a man, or a figure up in the sky who judges people,

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want to be fooled by emotional responses to experiences people don't really understand. Human emotions are too easily fooled.

This has nothing to do with emotion. And like I said, Im not trying to convince, or fool, any body. I understand how you feel. and Im not judging your beliefs. Just sharing my perspective on the topic.

[The Silent 1]

Originally Posted by Quinn the Eskimo

I know

Thats why I asked. You say its not just a feeling, so what is it then if not an experience or a feeling?

Originally Posted by Quinn the Eskimo

I had no preconceived notions of God or spirituality. I dont find God to be a man, or a figure up in the sky who judges people,

So what is your god?

[Quinn the Eskimo]

Im afraid my answer would most likely mean nothing to you,

The full gravity of what I believe is pretty deep and controversial,

sounds like a cop-out, I know, but spirituality is not something that can just be explained at the drop of the hat, :\

if you were truly interested I would try to explain, in private, I have nothing to hide about it, its just a hard thing to explain shortly and discuss on a public forum

[brycek34520]

as long as we as human beings become smarter and smarter. which WILL happen

[ugh1979]

Originally Posted by joinmartin

Religion has a habit of adapting. And it certainly has a strong presence in a lot of Europe. Young people not believing in God is really no surprise.

When you say 'adapting', I think it's more like fighting fires.

So many of the adaptations made in the last few hundreds years have been forced due to overwhelming contradictory evidence and cultural pressure and change.

Religion has already burnt out in North West Europe and it's not just young people either, it's most people under 70.

Doesn't mean they wouldn't decide to believe or discover a faith in the future. They might or they might not but never underestimate religion.

There is no evidence anywhere that indicates that populations become less atheist in time so there is no chance of that happening.

Religions time is up.

[ugh1979]

Originally Posted by Quinn the Eskimo

Most of these people, believe it or not, are famous/ at the top ranks of society. That does not mean ALL are.

What does being famous have to do with it? Even then that totally depends on what country you are from.

As for the 'top ranks', who are they?. It certainly can't mean the highest educated. Do you mean rich? If so, again why does that mean anything?

Actually to the contrary it's the bottom ranks of society (98% of the US jail population for example) who are the people of faith.

[ugh1979]

Originally Posted by Quinn the Eskimo

Im afraid my answer would most likely mean nothing to you,

The full gravity of what I believe is pretty deep and controversial,

sounds like a cop-out, I know, but spirituality is not something that can just be explained at the drop of the hat, :\

if you were truly interested I would try to explain, in private, I have nothing to hide about it, its just a hard thing to explain shortly and discuss on a public forum

[Glacial]

I don't have a link or reference at the moment, but I heard that some of the "mega" churches that went up like wild fires in the 90's are facing financial hard times. I think a lot of people got together and formed these churches on a whim of the "holy spirit," but what happens as people get tired with the church, bored, decide to sleep in on Sunday morning, kids become more atheistic? These football field sized fortresses aren't going to have the financial support to sustain themselves.

[Meta14]

Then they close down, causing religion to die out. Hallelujua.

[bottleofblues]

Originally Posted by ausnick

Do you think that over a period of time the majority of the world will continue become less religious and hopefully more accepting of atheists?

Yeah i think so, religion served its purpose for humanity it bought us together and made our species stronger as a result. I think as science progresses more of us are letting go of religion, i personally see religion as primitive.
But there's no reason why us atheists can't adopt some of the christian/muslim/buddhism/whatever ideas and use them to create social harmony. Like for example don't kill each other, forgiveness and look after your fellow man etc. And just leave all that heaven and hell, sinning and all that nasty stuff in those stuffy old churches where it belongs.

[Akane]

Depends. If the world keeps getting more high tech and the definition of poverty less extreme we will probably see atheism increase dramatically over the years. However it's entirely possible for a natural disaster to hit or a major country to collapse and stressful or difficult situations tend to make people want to believe in a higher power to get through the day. If you are worrying about the price of the good coffee shop down the road you probably don't stop to think how thankful you are when you eat breakfast. If you are worrying about whether you'll get any food at all that day or the next few days you are likely to be thanking "god" when you stop to eat anything.

[ugh1979]

Originally Posted by bottleofblues

Yeah i think so, religion served its purpose for humanity it bought us together and made our species stronger as a result. I think as science progresses more of us are letting go of religion, i personally see religion as primitive.

Indeed, we are advanced enough to have out grown religion and its child like beliefs. It's high time some of the world grew up and joined the adults.

But there's no reason why us atheists can't adopt some of the christian/muslim/buddhism/whatever ideas and use them to create social harmony. Like for example don't kill each other, forgiveness and look after your fellow man etc.

We don't need to adopt it from them. They adopted it from the fundamental nature of mankind's social hard wiring, and merely enforced it with the fear of God and hell etc. We are born with the instinct to live in groups, not kill each other and look after each other, among other altruistic values.

We do not need religion for any moral reason.

[Quinn the Eskimo]

Originally Posted by ugh1979

What does being famous have to do with it? Even then that totally depends on what country you are from.

As for the 'top ranks', who are they?. It certainly can't mean the highest educated. Do you mean rich? If so, again why does that mean anything?

Actually to the contrary it's the bottom ranks of society (98% of the US jail population for example) who are the people of faith.

[ugh1979]

Originally Posted by Quinn the Eskimo

Is that an admittance you are wrong?

[Quinn the Eskimo]

Originally Posted by ugh1979

Is that an admittance you are wrong?

nope. just an admittance that I dont want to discuss it any further.