"No More Mr. Nice Guy" free document

[TX boy]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I have created a new, totally free document that can be used in conjuction with the toxic shame document that I created awhile back (If you want to know what toxic shame is all about and how it plays a crucial role in our SA, go to my thread at http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/...anxiety-62843/)

The new document I created is a condensed version of the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Dr. Robert Glover. As you can tell by the name of the book, it is highly slanted for guys. However, it is NOT a "Pick Up Artist/How To Get Women" type of book, and it has nothing at all to do with becoming a jerk. It is instead a book that teaches a guy how to be a man and not a wimpy, people-pleasing "Nice Guy". Having said that, I think women may be able to benefit from some of the ideas. Or at the very least, women can read it to understand the men in their lives who may be afflicted with the "Nice Guy Syndrome". Women and men can also use it to teach their son(s) how to be a strong, integrated male and avoid the Nice Guy Syndrome. In fact, in a book review made of No More Mr. Nice Guy - a review written by a woman psychologist - she said, "Every man and every woman should read this book!"

I originally found out about this book through another forum. A member there raved about it, saying, "This book has become my bible!" I decided to give it a try and ordered it over the internet. Since receiving this book and reading it, this book has just blown me away. It has described me so well - wimpy, scared, passive, people-pleasing "Nice Guy" are just a few of the adjectives from the book that describes me and probably a lot of others here as well. The book also talks about the subject of toxic shame and how it affects us. The book does a good job in providing action steps & solutions to follow to help get over the Nice Guy Syndrome.

I put A LOT of info into the document (28 document pages in doc. #1 and 11 document pages in doc. #2), but obviously I couldn't include everything into my condensed document that was in the book. If I did then I would just be copying the book and not have a condensed document. lol. The book has more information and details than I have provided. It also gives great real-life personal examples from the author's own life, as well as the lives of the members of his Men's Group that he conducts weekly. So I highly encourage you to get the actual book, rather than only having a copy of my condensed document.

If anyone is interested, email me or PM me your email address. The document it totally free and I am not selling anything. I am only interested in helping.

(P.S - For those who want more info about the book, you can go to to the No More Mr. Nice Guy website or you can go to a website that sells books such as Amazon or Barnes & Noble.)

[Redefine]

Thanks man, I'll definitely read this book. The whole "Be a Man" thing is something so obvious, yet a lot of dudes just never learn how to do it. Boys aren't raised to be men and I think this is why a lot of young guys have the problems they have.

Just PM me, I'm really interested.

[UKPhobe]

Yeah TX Boy, forward me a copy of this condensed version please. Cheers

[TX boy]

I want to mention that I have now converted all my documents into PDF documents. This includes the toxic shame documents and No More Mr. Nice Guy documents. This means that if anyone has recieved documents from me in the past and the documents were oddly formatted (such as wide spaces between paragraphs or everything cruched together), then please email me and I'll send you the documents again... but this time in PDF format. The PDF format should make it to which everything is now properly formatted and is now easy to read. If the documents you received from me in the past had no problems in the formatting, then disregard this message.

For everyone else, if you would like a copy of my toxic shame documents or my No More Mr. Nice Guy documents (or both) then please email me or PM me your email address and I'll send the document(s) you requested to you.

[UKPhobe]

I've had a chance to read through it.

Actually turned out to be a lot better then i thought. I was expecting more alpha male rubbish but it's not really like that at all. Like all of these things it's another perspective of looking at this sort of thing but it's done in a mature and objective fashion with the added bonus of the author being a therapist (or at least claiming to be). My only criticism is that it's a little over Americanised.

Might be useful for anyone worried about being too nice (such as myself)!

[TheUnwelcome]

This reminds me of what was said by Brad Pitt in the movie Fight Club and I agree with it to an extent.

"We are a generation raised by women.
I'm wondering if another woman is the answer."
~Tyler~

I love my mom to death but this quote really hit home with me the first time I heard it. I was pretty much raised by my mother and sometimes I think it is the reason why I was so sheltered and insecure.

Another good Quote

Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed.

[lastofthekews]

Thanks for the documents, they are a real interesting read.

[alohomora]

Originally Posted by TheUnwelcome

This reminds me of what was said by Brad Pitt in the movie Fight Club and I agree with it to an extent.

"We are a generation raised by women.
I'm wondering if another woman is the answer."
~Tyler~

I love my mom to death but this quote really hit home with me the first time I heard it. I was pretty much raised by my mother and sometimes I think it is the reason why I was so sheltered and insecure.

We had many more generations raised by men. Each generation has its own troubles.

The only problem with being independent is that sometimes circumstances don't allow it. I'm a girl but I would love nothing more than to be independent and free and live by my own rules but I simply CANNOT. My mom has a medical condition. I have to take care of her and be sensitive. I have to please her even if it kills me. I can't go through life thinking I can just take control of anything because there are so many things that I CANNOT control because there are forces in life more powerful than me and everyone else: mortality above anything else. Yes, I was made into a "nice" girl because I have to be. My mom's physical pain is not gonna go on vacation simply because I decided to venture out on my own. I struggled with this for a long time. I felt imprisoned...but such is life. TheUnwelcome, your story may or may not have anything to do with mine. Either way, I just wanted to share it because I felt the need to show a broader viewpoint on the topic.

[TheUnwelcome]

Yea, I understand. Not everyone is the same. I just think in my case that being raised by my mom and having barely any interaction with my father has really made me a very sheltered person. There are positive things about it though. I don't go out and do retarded things that lots of guys do that could get them into trouble and I think deeply about the consequences of doing things and avoid fights and arguments as much as possible. But this could be seen as negative too I suppose.

I can't really blame it on my mother either for my father not being around. He was an alcoholic and liked to gamble.

[UKPhobe]

Originally Posted by TheUnwelcome

This reminds me of what was said by Brad Pitt in the movie Fight Club and I agree with it to an extent.

"We are a generation raised by women.
I'm wondering if another woman is the answer."
~Tyler~

I love my mom to death but this quote really hit home with me the first time I heard it. I was pretty much raised by my mother and sometimes I think it is the reason why I was so sheltered and insecure.

Another good Quote

Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy **** we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed.

I'd sort of agree with that except that being raised by men is no guarantee that you grow up to be secure just as being raised by women is no guarantee of becoming insecure. I don't think you can peg this down to a question of gender but certain values and possibly upbringing.

[TX boy]

Originally Posted by alohomora

We had many more generations raised by men. Each generation has its own troubles.

Yes, it is true that we have had many generations raised by men - or to be more accurate, we have had men of generations past that regularly raised men (meaning, their sons). However, as Dr. Glover (the author of "No More Mr. Nice Guy") pointed out, it has been in the last few generations that men have less and less been involved in raising their sons. Instead, for a variety of reasons detailed in the book, women have largely been raising boys into men. As UK Probe mentioned eariler in the thread, the book is more of an "Americanised" point of view. So, I don't know if other countries have the same situation of women doing most of the raising of boys, but I can tell you it tends to be true here in the United States.

Originally Posted by alohomora

The only problem with being independent is that sometimes circumstances don't allow it. I'm a girl but I would love nothing more than to be independent and free and live by my own rules but I simply CANNOT. My mom has a medical condition. I have to take care of her and be sensitive. I have to please her even if it kills me. I can't go through life thinking I can just take control of anything because there are so many things that I CANNOT control because there are forces in life more powerful than me and everyone else: mortality above anything else. Yes, I was made into a "nice" girl because I have to be. My mom's physical pain is not gonna go on vacation simply because I decided to venture out on my own. I struggled with this for a long time. I felt imprisoned...but such is life. TheUnwelcome, your story may or may not have anything to do with mine. Either way, I just wanted to share it because I felt the need to show a broader viewpoint on the topic.

Alohomora, I certainly sympathize with your mother having a medical condition, and that you have to spend so much time taking care of her. I admire that you are there for her to make sure her needs are met. But what you are going through does not appear to fit what the "Nice Guy Syndrome" is about, as described in the book. Yes, you feel you have to be a "nice girl" and take care of your mother and not leave her to go live your own independent life. But as I said, that has nothing to do with the Nice Guy Syndrome.

If you do not have a copy of my document yet and you are interested in everything that is involved into the making of the "Nice Guy", email me and I'll send you a copy of the document.

[TX boy]

Originally Posted by TheUnwelcome

Yea, I understand. Not everyone is the same. I just think in my case that being raised by my mom and having barely any interaction with my father has really made me a very sheltered person. There are positive things about it though. I don't go out and do retarded things that lots of guys do that could get them into trouble and I think deeply about the consequences of doing things and avoid fights and arguments as much as possible. But this could be seen as negative too I suppose.

Your thought process towards other men is a classic example of what Dr. Glover talks about in the book. Here is a passage from his book (of which I am copying and pasting here from my document) (I put the passage in italics for the purpose of this post only):

Nice Guys Tend To Be Disconnected From Other Men – I frequently hear Nice Guys make comments such as:

• “I’m just not comfortable with other men. I don’t know what to talk about.”
• “Most men are jerks.”
• “I used to have male friends, but my wife made it such a hassle to do things with them that I just gave up.”
• “I tend to be a loner.”

Many Nice Guys have difficulty connecting with men because of the limited positive male contact they experienced in childhood. Another common trait among Nice Guys is the belief that they are different from other men. This distorted thinking usually began in childhood, when they tried to be different from their “bad” or unavailable fathers. Nice Guys may convince themselves they are different from (better than) other men because they believe:

• They aren’t controlling
• They aren’t angry and rageful
• They are attentive to a woman’s needs
• They are good lovers
• They are good fathers

As long as Nice Guys are disconnected from men or believe they are different from other men, they cut themselves off from the many positive benefits of male companionship and the power of a masculine community.

The book goes on to explain the posiitive benefits of male companionship. So, the point I'm trying to make is that being a sheltered person and not having interactions with you father, that is not a positive thing as you said. When you say it's a positive thing because "I don't go out and do retarded things that lots of guys do that could get them into trouble", then you proving Dr. Glover's point in his above quote. Your comment has subconscious tones that "all men are bad"... which is what many Nice Guys think towards other men. You also made the statement "and I think deeply about the consequences of doing things and avoid fights and arguments as much as possible." Well, I think a man can teach that lesson just as easily as a woman could.

Originally Posted by TheUnwelcome

I can't really blame it on my mother either for my father not being around. He was an alcoholic and liked to gamble.

You said your father wasn't around because he was an alcoholic and a gambler. Well, my father was also an alcoholic (though not a gambler). My father was around to only a certain degree, but him getting drunk day, after day, after day ... well, that obviously put a barrier up from him being a role model and kept him doing the fatherly things with not only me, but with the rest of my siblings as well. So, I think it is safe to say that me and you both lost out from our fathers not being the positive role model for us that they should have been.

TheUnwelcome, here is a quote from Alohomora's post that sums it up well for us in regards to our situation with our fathers: "Such is life."

[TheUnwelcome]

Aye,

When I saw this post the first thing I thought was how I consider myself one of those "Nice Guys". I've told many women that I was a nice guy and many women actually seemed to like that I was a "Nice Guy" but eventually I end up not being able to maintain this life/thought style and end up getting in some kind of drama which leads to breaking up. I always want to make people happy but in the end it drains me and I become angry because I feel as if my needs have not been met. I totally agree that this is one of my quirks.

[TX boy]

Originally Posted by UKPhobe

I'd sort of agree with that except that being raised by men is no guarantee that you grow up to be secure just as being raised by women is no guarantee of becoming insecure. I don't think you can peg this down to a question of gender but certain values and possibly upbringing.

UK Probe, I agree... there is no guarantee how someone being raised by either gender will turn out. But like the old saying goes, "Nothing in life is guaranteed execept death and taxes."

I DO think it is really important that BOTH genders be available to raise a child. Dr. Glover in his book has the same opinion as well. A child needs to learn the positive masculine qualities from his/her father, and also needs to learn the positive feminine qualities from his/her mother. So regardless what gender the child is, the child needs to learn from both parents. Of course this isn't a perfect world. The father or mother may have very serious issues (such as my alcoholic father) and therefore unable to be around for the child. When this happens, it is just one of the elements that can play a role for a boy to grow up to be a "Nice Guy" (as defined by Dr. Glover). But all things being equal, it is definitely in the child's best interest to have both a healthy father role model and a healthy mother role model.

UK Probe, I'm glad you found the No More Mr. Nice Guy document useful. Also, I want to thank another forum member, "lastofthekews" for his positive words about the document. If anyone else wants to share their opinion of the document (or the book itself if you have it), I'd be interested in hearing (or should I say "seeing") your opinion here about it.

[Some Russian Guy]

Is there an audio version of this book ?

[TX boy]

Originally Posted by Some Russian Guy

Is there an audio version of this book ?

Some Russian Guy,

Yes, there is an audio version at the Dr. Glover's website. Just click on the "Buy The Book" link at the left of that page. That will take you to the page in which you can order the audio version on CD, cassette, or mp3 format. Also, the book can be ordered there as well (you can also find the book in bookstores).

I also want to remind everyone that I also have a couple of documents regarding toxic shame. Don't confuse toxic shame with regular shame; they are totally different. I believe toxic shame to be the core of our social anxiety. I gave the link to my thread about toxic shame in the first post of this thread. I think everyone should at least give the thread a look to get some idea of what toxic shame is. If you should have any comments specifically about toxic shame, then I ask that you post in that thread. That way we can keep this thread focused on the No More Mr. Nice Guy book.

[Some Russian Guy]

thanks... i have this book, I'm too lazy to read it though...

[alohomora]

Originally Posted by TX boy

Yes, it is true that we have had many generations raised by men - or to be more accurate, we have had men of generations past that regularly raised men (meaning, their sons). However, as Dr. Glover (the author of "No More Mr. Nice Guy") pointed out, it has been in the last few generations that men have less and less been involved in raising their sons. Instead, for a variety of reasons detailed in the book, women have largely been raising boys into men. As UK Probe mentioned eariler in the thread, the book is more of an "Americanised" point of view. So, I don't know if other countries have the same situation of women doing most of the raising of boys, but I can tell you it tends to be true here in the United States.

My initial comment was: There have been many more generations raised by men. Each generations has its own problems. I totally agree with your comment above and I don't even know where the disagreement was. The only thing I added was that each generation has its own set of problems. However, since we're on the subject of changing generational trends, I would like to mention something I haven't said before: I have observed that many girls these days behave very "boyishly" and are able to "hang" with the guys and do guy things (I'm not one of them, lol, guys actually intimidate me)

Originally Posted by TX boy

Alohomora, I certainly sympathize with your mother having a medical condition, and that you have to spend so much time taking care of her. I admire that you are there for her to make sure her needs are met. But what you are going through does not appear to fit what the "Nice Guy Syndrome" is about, as described in the book. Yes, you feel you have to be a "nice girl" and take care of your mother and not leave her to go live your own independent life. But as I said, that has nothing to do with the Nice Guy Syndrome.

Maybe I did not explain my situation well enough. I get very resentful and angry about my care-taking duties. I feel like I have to do more than what my resources allow me to do. I have to sacrifice many wants and desires. I get very little satisfaction. I have to do things how my mom wants them to be done. I have to please her because I am sort of her extension in a way. It's not her fault. She can't do certain things on her own. She doesn't have a choice either. But, I often times resent being dragged around, necessary or not. Are these feelings not characteristic of the "Nice Girl Syndrome"?

This is my frustration: I don't know if my feelings can be avoided. I think they are inevitable. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe my awareness of my options is limited.

[alohomora]

Sorry for the extra post but I would like to say to anyone in general that I don't like the term "Nice Girl" or "Nice Guy" to describe people because it gets misinterpreted. I think TX boy may have tried to clarify this misinterpretation somewhat but I'll give my two cents anyway. I think a so-called "nice person" may actually be a jerk and vice versa. In fact, even with good intentions, a nice person can turn out to be a jerk when they can't follow through. A so-called "nice person" may be, "someone who makes promises they don't realize they can't keep (they don't respect their limited resources)" or "a person who doesn't realize his/her efforts are really unhelpful in the long-run," or "someone who greedily takes on too much responsibility alone and thus makes other people feel left out". I actually experienced the last one recently: I was doing things for everyone else at work. I realized that this was unfair and greedy. PEOPLE DON'T WANT THAT! They want to have responsibilities too. They want to feel like they are a part of something. So yeah, I think in general (as long as you are dealing with healthy, independent people), it is good to get rid of the so-called "nice girl" attitude. It's more fair to you, and it's more fair to everyone else.

[pyramidsong]

Eehhhh, the message is good but not necessarily gender-specific. I think a lot of people's SA problems come precisely from having prescribed gender roles thrust upon them. I am female and outwardly look very feminine, but I tell you my SA decreased dramatically when I realised I'm NOT like other women (I don't want marriage, children, a diamond- all that s*** bores me to tears, frankly) and actually more like the male stereotype- lone wolf, need a lot of alone time, can't stand the thought of being tied down and am turned on by intellect rather than emotion. Accepting this and therefore myself has really helped. So I guess on the flipside, if a male is softer, more feminine and accepts that, no problem. BUT if he is being sweet and nice out of some misguided notion of trying to please, you're definitely on to something. Please note, I am talking about gender roles, not sexuality. One doesn't necessarily correlate with the other. I guess what I'm trying to say is trying to conform to ANY role (one sanctioned by society OR not) is dire to an SA sufferer. Self acceptance is key, regardless of where on the gender map you are. I think it's problematic to suggest "men should be like this, women should be like that." When you've gotten to a point where you can say, "this is me, deal with it" then you've got it made either way.

Just my 2c.