Is Manganese the solution??

[ShawnnyK]

Beggiatoa, How long have you been taking manganese?

[Beggiatoa]

For about one month now

[Greensoap]

Could you list the difference in how you feel?

I've just picked up a bottle of 100 x 5mg Chelated Manganese after coming home from the doctors disgrunted and unhappy with my doctors choice of medication. Thought this could be worth a try.

The back of the bottle states 7mg is the RDA, let others in this thread say otherwise? What do you take, im 115lbs btw.

Sorry if you've already stated this, I haven't read through every detail in this thread

[Beggiatoa]

The Upper limit is set at 11 mg based on age, not weight. So if you're over 19, this range should be safe.

[ratherbesailing]

I am new to this forum and found your post on thiamine and continued reading your other posts until I stumbled across this thread on manganese. My question is how long were you on the 20 mg dose before you started noticing any improvement and has going down to the 10 mg dose lowered the effectiveness? Also, did taking thiamine cause any changes for you or was it just the manganese? Thanks.
I originally found my thiamine info (and in which he states that manganese is a necessary co-factor) from the research of Ronald Myers, CNC at these links, should anyone be interested:

http://www.funimky.com/downloads/THIAMINE.pdf

http://www.funimky.com/downloads/GI%...M_Part%201.pdf

http://www.funimky.com/beyond_nutrition.htm

[Beggiatoa]

Originally Posted by ratherbesailing

I am new to this forum and found your post on thiamine and continued reading your other posts until I stumbled across this thread on manganese. My question is how long were you on the 20 mg dose before you started noticing any improvement and has going down to the 10 mg dose lowered the effectiveness? Also, did taking thiamine cause any changes for you or was it just the manganese? Thanks.
I originally found my thiamine info (and in which he states that manganese is a necessary co-factor) from the research of Ronald Myers, CNC at these links, should anyone be interested:

http://www.funimky.com/downloads/THIAMINE.pdf

http://www.funimky.com/downloads/GI%...M_Part%201.pdf

http://www.funimky.com/beyond_nutrition.htm

Thank you for the links. I will read every inch of the site. The manganese is interesting. I tried using it once a few months back. Every time I dosed, it would make me really tired. I could never figure it out. I was taking many other supplements then, so it was hard to figure out which did. Once I stopped the Mn, this problem went away. I tried it again many, many months later. This time, I was more educated on how important it was for dopamine production and connective tissue (especially hyaluronic acid formation). The first dose, made me sleepy. The second dose, made my left arm feel numb for a few hours. After the 3rd of 4rd dose, I started to feel amazing but the effect came as very subtle.

I switch to a 10 mg dose but it wasn't chelated. I didn't do anything for me. The chelated forms seems to be the best absorbed.

[Beggiatoa]

Using thiamin, I saw modest improvements in orthostatic hypotension and tremors, but not as pronouced as using manganese.

[irma]

I've just been reading an old book called Nutrition and Mental Illness by Dr Carl Pfeiffer and he recommended that anxious people take 10mg of managanese as gluconate twice a day.

[Beggiatoa]

Originally Posted by irma

I've just been reading an old book called Nutrition and Mental Illness by Dr Carl Pfeiffer and he recommended that anxious people take 10mg of managanese as gluconate twice a day.

Does he explain why?

[ratherbesailing]

Your post was very helpful. A year or so ago I came across manganese and tried Solgar Chelated Manganese (manganese glycinate) and felt nothing either positive or negative. This time, just 3 days ago, I tried Twin Labs Magnesium Gluconate (supposedly chelated as well) and have had a similar reaction as you've described. I've been very sleepy/tired and yesterday my right arm started aching and feeling numb like when it has lactic acid build up issues. I'm going to stick with it for several weeks and see what happens.
Also, what type of thiamine were you taking? I've tried the HCL version to no avail and now the Benfotiamine with a tiny effect, also, like yourself, with the orthostatic hypotension (I don't lose my eyesight as frequently). I am about to try the Biotics Research version of thiamine that Ronald Myers spoke of in his articles and see if that makes a difference as well. It is interesting how the version of a supplement can really matter. I also am including a link from a chiropractor who uses the Biotics Thiamine and what dosages he uses with his patients. Thanks for your very practical input.

http://www.aznetnews.com/story.php?storyid=271

[ratherbesailing]

I have not read Carl Pfeiffer's book, but have read Joan Matthews Larson (where I first heard about manganese and tried the glycinate version, not realizing that Larson uses the gluconate version) as well as Julia Ross who have built on the foundation of Pfeiffer's research. Larson mentions that manganese helps rebuild the adrenal glands which are implicated in anxiety issues. She also mentions it is necessary for the proper use of the B complex vitamins as well as vitamin C, which I assume are what help the adrenals?

[irma]

he doesn't say why, he probably figured out that his patients were deficient in it. he said to take zinc gluconate, 60mg, b6, up to 500mg, and manganese gluconate, 20mg per day.
he also said that if people with disorders have the symptoms of high histamine, they should take 1g of methionine, and 1g of calcium gluconate per day.
he came to these conclusions of what certain people should take after studying over 20,000 patients with mental disorders, testing their vitamins levels and mineral levels, etc.

[ratherbesailing]

Irma,

Did Pfeiffer give manganese to high histamine? Larson only gave it to low histamine and I assumed it contradicted with high, but I have not read Pfeiffer's book. Thanks.

[ratherbesailing]

I thought I would post a different reaction to the manganese gluconate. I have a hyper/driven/ adhd type anxiety, but my husband has a low energy depressive anxiety and we have reacted very differently to the manganese. I get very sleepy on it, still, and he had a huge surge in energy the very first dose with no negative reactions. He only took 10 mg versus I was taking 20 mg, so I'll try backing off on my dose to see if there is any difference. He has used rhodiola and L-Tyrosine in the past that have also given him a big increase in energy and a take charge feeling, but disappeared after 2-3 weeks. Even if he waited a month and took them again, the energy level never returned. We're hoping that manganese won't do the same thing.

[irma]

he said people with high or low histamine can take 10-30mg of zinc with 5-50mg of manganese.

[ratherbesailing]

Thanks, Irma. Did he state that there was any risk using the manganese at the higher dosages beyond 20 mg? 50 mg is a lot, but obviously he was using it with patients for years so maybe it has some merit in certain cases?

[saosin80]

Q. Social Anxiety
I have found myself wondering more and more about social anxiety. My partner seemed to develop social anxiety around the same time she was diagnosed bipolar. i am wondering how many of you also suffer from soical anxiety and if you feel it is a result of bipolar disorder (perhaps personal knowledge of the possible behaviours associated with the illness) or if it is a seperate and unrelated symptom?
A1 Social Anxiety Disorders are the most common mental illness in the U.S. with 19.1 million (13.3%) of the adult U.S. population (ages 18-54) affected. and i think (not investigated- just an assumption) people with Bipolar disorder can easily develop shyness and would want to avoid social activities just because they think that other people wouldn't understand their problem.
A2 hi,
social anxiety disorder is best defeated by groups like
the Toastmasters International or the dale carnegie course.
The nwork without drugs
David
A3 Methinks all these brain disorders have everything to do with a lack of copper. With all our modern technology and artificial fertilizers and processing of foods, the food has become so depleted of minerals that our bodies and brains have become so depleted that we cannot even function properly. Start taking kelp, calcium magnesium, cod liver oil, flax seed oil, and raw apple cider vinegar. This will bring healing and normal function to the brain and body systems. The emotions will calm down and be more manageable. If you are taking a vitamin with more manganese than copper it will add to the dysfunction. Don't waste your money. There you are! Some solutions rather than more rhetoric about the problem.


I found this on another site. This person seems to think it's not enough copper and taking more manganese will hurt not help, ahhh, someone please figure it out so I can feel normal! lol

[Beggiatoa]

Originally Posted by saosin80

Q. Social Anxiety
I have found myself wondering more and more about social anxiety. My partner seemed to develop social anxiety around the same time she was diagnosed bipolar. i am wondering how many of you also suffer from soical anxiety and if you feel it is a result of bipolar disorder (perhaps personal knowledge of the possible behaviours associated with the illness) or if it is a seperate and unrelated symptom?
A1 Social Anxiety Disorders are the most common mental illness in the U.S. with 19.1 million (13.3%) of the adult U.S. population (ages 18-54) affected. and i think (not investigated- just an assumption) people with Bipolar disorder can easily develop shyness and would want to avoid social activities just because they think that other people wouldn't understand their problem.
A2 hi,
social anxiety disorder is best defeated by groups like
the Toastmasters International or the dale carnegie course.
The nwork without drugs
David
A3 Methinks all these brain disorders have everything to do with a lack of copper. With all our modern technology and artificial fertilizers and processing of foods, the food has become so depleted of minerals that our bodies and brains have become so depleted that we cannot even function properly. Start taking kelp, calcium magnesium, cod liver oil, flax seed oil, and raw apple cider vinegar. This will bring healing and normal function to the brain and body systems. The emotions will calm down and be more manageable. If you are taking a vitamin with more manganese than copper it will add to the dysfunction. Don't waste your money. There you are! Some solutions rather than more rhetoric about the problem.


I found this on another site. This person seems to think it's not enough copper and taking more manganese will hurt not help, ahhh, someone please figure it out so I can feel normal! lol

Does he provide references for this??? What are the mechanisms acting on this theory?

If you read my earlier posts, I too subscribed to the "we need more copper" bandwagon. I even had a Liver biopsy done (which hurt like hell!) to determine if I was low (or high) on copper. Both extremes cause similiar symptoms. All tests were normal. My copper levels were good. Before I got smart and started testing, I took copper pills indiscriminately. I can tell you they did nothing to alleviate my social anxiety so I know copper wasn't the cofactor my body/brain were missing.

Eventually, I developed a hernia. I later learned that high copper intake activates metalloenzymes that degrade connective tissue. This was the OPPOSITE of what I was trying to do. I wanted to enhance CT production, not augment its degradation. So, copper was out.

It's been a completely different world for me since I added manganese. I cannot write on this board how much my life has changed in the last month or so.

What I suggest to everyone is to test for deficiencies. Test blood, urine, hair, whatever. You want a picture of what's going on in your body before you start putting things in it.

Click this link and scroll up. Read this section on manganese. It says dietary MN is not toxic.

http://books.google.com.do/books?id=...age&q=&f=false

[anomal2]

Science's goal is to prevent threads like this one.

[irma]

Originally Posted by ratherbesailing

Thanks, Irma. Did he state that there was any risk using the manganese at the higher dosages beyond 20 mg? 50 mg is a lot, but obviously he was using it with patients for years so maybe it has some merit in certain cases?

he didn't say, but i dont think its neccessary to go that high. the main recommendation was 20mg, but then said towards the end of the book that it can be used as high as 50mg, but this amount he probably only used with schizophrenic patients.