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Old 09-05-2011, 07:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Smile Effective precursor loading (L-Tyrosine & L-Tryptophan)

Hi!

The common suggestion is to take L-Tyrosine in the morning and L-Tryptophan in the evening, before bed. However I've read that when taking L-Tryptohan at night time it will convert to melatonin instead of serotonin. Please note the figure down below.

L-Tryptophan --> 5-Hydroxytryptophan 5-HTP --> Serotonin --> N-Acetyl-serotonin --> Melatonin

Or have I just misunderstood and it will indeed convert into Serotonin (no matter whether you take L-Tryptophan in the morning or in the evening) and then once we go to sleep, serotonin will convert to melatonin.

Which brings me to the second part of my question. If I would take L-Tyrosine & L-Tryptohan at the same time, say, in the morning - would taking them together effect their efficiency? As I've read that different amino acids actually compete with each other for absorption. So that even when they are all present together in the digestive system some are more readily absorbed than others. And that for precursors loading to be effective the amino acids must be taken separetely in the form of singular free form amino acids and taken in large enough quantities to ensure that enough of the final products do reach the brain to form the neurotransmitters.

P.S. I am taking MSM powder along with Vitamin C right now. Should I stop taking or can I continue to use them along side with L-Tryptophan & L-Tyrosine. And furthermore, can I intake them all at the same time without losing efficiency.

Thanks in forward!
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Old 09-05-2011, 10:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Yes

Dopamine and Serotonin fight for entrance into the brain. Tyrosine has a rate limiting effect meaning that it cant actually increase dopamine, just the stimulation of dopamagenic cells.

Be careful with Tyrosine, it doesnt just convert into dopamine, but also noradreneline, so depending on mood it can make you angry, more pissed off.

I would say Tyrosine first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach with Vitamin C, and Tryptophan in the afternoon
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wazcro View Post
Hi!

The common suggestion is to take L-Tyrosine in the morning and L-Tryptophan in the evening, before bed. However I've read that when taking L-Tryptohan at night time it will convert to melatonin instead of serotonin. Please note the figure down below.

L-Tryptophan --> 5-Hydroxytryptophan 5-HTP --> Serotonin --> N-Acetyl-serotonin --> Melatonin

Or have I just misunderstood and it will indeed convert into Serotonin (no matter whether you take L-Tryptophan in the morning or in the evening) and then once we go to sleep, serotonin will convert to melatonin.

Which brings me to the second part of my question. If I would take L-Tyrosine & L-Tryptohan at the same time, say, in the morning - would taking them together effect their efficiency? As I've read that different amino acids actually compete with each other for absorption. So that even when they are all present together in the digestive system some are more readily absorbed than others. And that for precursors loading to be effective the amino acids must be taken separetely in the form of singular free form amino acids and taken in large enough quantities to ensure that enough of the final products do reach the brain to form the neurotransmitters.

P.S. I am taking MSM powder along with Vitamin C right now. Should I stop taking or can I continue to use them along side with L-Tryptophan & L-Tyrosine. And furthermore, can I intake them all at the same time without losing efficiency.

Thanks in forward!
I decided to take DLPA instead of tyrosine. Essentially it is the precursor to tyrosine and I take it in the moring on an empty stomach.
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Old 09-06-2011, 12:39 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Zeeshan View Post
Yes

Dopamine and Serotonin fight for entrance into the brain. Tyrosine has a rate limiting effect meaning that it cant actually increase dopamine, just the stimulation of dopamagenic cells.

Be careful with Tyrosine, it doesnt just convert into dopamine, but also noradreneline, so depending on mood it can make you angry, more pissed off.

I would say Tyrosine first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach with Vitamin C, and Tryptophan in the afternoon
Thanks for the reply! I forgot to mention that I would be taking a B-complex vitamin as well, so I'll just throw that in there with Vitamin C.

Taking L-Tryptophan in the afternoon sounds reasonable, perhaps 1h before lunch or 3h after lunch. I guess it depends on how close my breakfast & lunch is? So that Tyrosine & Tryptophan wouldn't fight for entrance into the brain? Regarding this topic, is there a table/list somewhere online on this - so I could see which amino acids you can mix together and which ones compete with each other?

Thanks!
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Old 09-06-2011, 06:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Competition for transport across cellular barriers depends on the transport mechanism used by the individual amino acids. So I found a list of the different transport mechanisms, check it out below!

Large Neutral Transport System:
Histidine
Isoleucine
Leucine
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Threonine
Tryptophan
Tyrosine
Valine

Small Neutral Transport System:
Asparagine
Glutamine
Proline
Serine

Basic Transport System:
Arginine
Lysine
Ornithine

Acidic Transport System:
Aspartic acid
Glutamic acid

So does this mean I shouldn't take say, Tryptophan & Tyrosine at the same time as both of them are transported via large neutral system?

Then again I found another source saying that if an amino acid is free in the gut lumen, it will be absorbed even if there are other amino acids
present that could compete with it for absorption. And that amino acids
from supplements are never going to get in the way of each
other. However taking many amino acids at the same time might take a toll on the liver and problems may arise from livers processing capabilities. So the intake should be matched to liver metabolic capabilities and human need for each essential amino acid. This could be solved with timing and knowing when one amino acid is absorbed so you could take in another one. Is there any information on amino acid absorption timing out there?

Please do correct me if I'm wrong!

Thanks in forward!
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