Doing the Nightlife

[bwidger85]

I've been thinking a lot about what naturally attracts or interests me about other people so I can further understand my needs and wants regarding relationships with others. This may sound pretty simple to you, but what has really opened my eyes has been a clearer understanding of how I view others within the world.

Lately it has really hit home that it's not that people aren't interesting, but rather it's myself not being open enough to appreciate, understand, relate and sympathize with others. When I limit my openess I limit my natural curiosity which affects my interest to interact with people. I often imagine myself talking to a stranger and losing interest or becoming bored very rapidly, and I have to ask myself why am I not interested? I have to ask myself why am I not entertained enough to REALLY want to contribute towards this conversation? Why do I not like small talk? I used to tell myself it's because this person simply isn't interesting, on my wavelength, etc. Interestingly enough, when I appreciate others I am receptive towards them and this is key because it's telling me that I'm being too critical and not open minded enough to want to connect. When your angry, upset or resentful towards others you are repelled and put off by people. When you appreciative and are in awe of people you become naturally interested and receptive. So another question you may ask yourself is, if I want to connect with people, how do I stop being resentful towards others? Learn to appreciate, respect and be in awe of others and you will become naturally interested.

Learn how to appreciate people and you'll be interested in others. Be open-minded and try to be inquisitive instead of critical of people. People are doing amazing things all the time. When you see a child, what do you see? Are you in awe of the things children possess? When you see someone who is blind or cripple, are you amazed how cheerful they can be? Are you grateful for the things you have? We all need to ask ourselves questions that help us stay appreciative of our positions in life.

I know I'm all over with a concrete thesis but yeah...



This may sound strange to you but being interested in people can do a lot of things for you like:

-Entertainment
-Create friendships
-Build self-esteem
-Create confidence
etc...

[Intent]

Originally Posted by bwidger85

It's nice to hear of someone who feels they have learned something from the same experience. I know what I'm going through is worth doing. I'd love to hear more about your experiences and/or what you've learned...

sorry for the delay, my friend.

I think you're absolutely right, it is absolutely worth doing... but maybe it's not right for everybody else. Tell you what, I might have been much worse off than you, seeing as I would get the blushing and sweating. Imagine ducking outside for a quick smoke (I used to smoke then) and seeing the steam rise off of me in 25 degree weather

Anyway, alcohol can indeed be the key. Without it, I'd be the sweating doof that I'd been programmed to be. But with it, I became what I'd say was my real self.

I'd have about a million things to say, and a thousand stories. I know that people lie on internet, but I have not much reason to lie. There really was the time when the guy with the Hells Angels jacket was kinda scowling around, so (being whacked) I figured I go and mess with him Or the time I first walked up to a group of 3 good-looking girls, swaggering (again being whacked). Wimpy me did that? I said to myself all next day. hehe

To me it was about getting to the point of what I termed "jumping off". Then I didn't care so much of it went good or bad, it was just that I DID IT, I overcame the skulking in the corner.

Most times, unless I ended up with a girl, I was overcome next day with the bitter bitter remorse. I'd browbeat myself like a dog. I came to realize there was an inner censor that tried to make me never speak or do. So the alcohol would defeat that censor, temporarily, until next day it would arise again - accompanied by the rebound anxiety.

Anyway, I applaud you for trying. I'll check back to see if this discussion keeps going. I like the concept of taking the more aggressive approach, to overcoming.

[bwidger85]

Thanks for the reply Intent. Sounds like you put some work in back then.

I went out last night to some downtown bars with a friend I haven't seen since high school. I was nervous before hand but when I got there I was at ease all night. I talked to a lot of people and every conversation seemed interesting, long-lasting and fluent. My friend left around 12:30-1am, but because I was having so fun and I felt so relaxed, I stayed and visited a couple more bars around the corner before I took off. I wasn't nervous at all in either of the two places and continued chatting up people. Around 2am, when the bars were closing, I walked up to a couple real pretty ladies and had a nice conversation with one of them and she seemed really nice and open to talk. I didn't get her number or anything because she was actually on her way out with her friends, but the conversation showed me that people in general are nice and that there are good people in bars, including women.

So what else can I say? I've done what I've set out to do. I feel motivated and excited to want to go out, even if it’s by myself (big goal of mine). For some reason, which I haven't really understood why yet, I am having good conversation with people, whereas that seemed like a challenge earlier in this thread. I know for certain that it’s what I think that changes everything and so there must of been something inside my head that just switched me, almost to say, "NOW you can enjoy yourself".

One major perception change of mine happened recently about a month or two ago. It isn't like I've never thought of these things before but they just really hit home to me recently. Without getting too far into detail I'll just list them. Ironically, they seem almost "duh" but here they are nonetheless...

Perceptions:

-People are generally nice. Being negative towards others is something that wears you down and brings back bad "karma", for a lack of a better word, so those who seem negative typically are that way because they don't know how else to react. Point of emphasis: it’s NOT because of you.

-Being social is easy. Meeting people is easy. Why is it hard? Because we make it hard. We make it hard on ourselves and on other people. When we begin to realize how much easier it is to interact with people verses not interacting with people we then see how hard it is to be antisocial. HOWEVER, and this is the kicker, just because you’re not interacting with people does not mean you're unable. If you don't feel like talking that is fine but don't say it’s because your unable to because of your anxiousness. Still, anxiety may prevent you from communicating with others, but take it from me, you are just as capable of communicating successfully with others as the next socially adept person. It's beautiful for me to KNOW that without a doubt things can turn around, especially if it's related to shyness/SA because it's a condition that YOU control, and after all, we can't truly control anything else to such an extent. So yeah, you can learn and change things if you put in the time, stay committed and if you really want to do it.

I have a lot more to say but some guy is like sitting right by me staring at what I'm writing so I'm going to get off here...be back later...

Back..

-There is something powerful about appreciating people. I realize that there is so much more to say about it but words fail me right now. This is one of those things I'm still learning and becoming aware of more and more. But like I said, being appreciative of people changes your perspective big time, or at least in my situation it helps. (read about it two posts up)

[mind_games]

lol @ staring guy.

Wow bwidger85, thats impressive and inspirational, what you've accomplished. Its really nice to see your progress laid out on a thread.

[Intent]

"There is something powerful about appreciating people"

fwiw, the idea I developed is this: find something that's genuinely worthy of a compliment and then give the compliment. If they like it, then they think like you and you have something in common. If they don't understand your compliment, then maybe they're not what you thought they were. If you can't think of any genuine compliment, then they're a regular human

Just curious: what's the problem in going by yourself? For me, tjhat was always better because I could delay or duck out or whatever, until I got rolling.

[bwidger85]

Originally Posted by Intent

"There is something powerful about appreciating people"

fwiw, the idea I developed is this: find something that's genuinely worthy of a compliment and then give the compliment. If they like it, then they think like you and you have something in common. If they don't understand your compliment, then maybe they're not what you thought they were. If you can't think of any genuine compliment, then they're a regular human

Just curious: what's the problem in going by yourself? For me, tjhat was always better because I could delay or duck out or whatever, until I got rolling.

It probably is better going by yourself, but I guess I still have that idea that it'll be less fun or that I'll be bored or something. I'm sure that belief in itself depends on how I spend the night while I'm there...

[ringfortheking]

Going to a bar doesn't require a lot of thinking ahead. Just go. Mingle. It's that easy.

[bwidger85]

Originally Posted by ringfortheking

Going to a bar doesn't require a lot of thinking ahead. Just go. Mingle. It's that easy.

Simple enough.

[bwidger85]

Went downtown to a couple of bars tonight by myself. Nothing too exciting. Talked to a view people here and there. There were girls around but most were occupied with friends or distracted, and some were obviously with guys. Hung around the first bar for about an hour then jogged down to another -- dead and nothing of interest. Didn't put too much emphasis on tonight. Tomorrow I plan on hitting up another part of downtown called Rays, which is some trendy bar that looks promising. If nothing happens, that's cool, but I'm not going to bring myself down for not meeting anyone in particular. I'm relaxed and open and that's all I can ask for. If I end up running, approaching or chatting up a girl I like then I'll ask for her number. I don't expect it to be smooth sailing from there, but I'll do the rounds and ask her if she'd like to hang out sometime; if nothing happens that's fine too. It's not about one night in particular or a few girls being offish because I know that that's just how it works sometimes. In a sense, I'm proud of myself for not really caring anymore. Perhaps I'll just walk up to a random group of people tomorrow and chat up some ladies within the group. Enough singling out particular ladies because that's pretty uneventful considering that most go in groups with friends, etc. Am I a creep? LOL, no. I'm just a badass-good looking bloke taking advantage of some bars to meet some interesting and cool women. Yeah, it'd be nice to meet someone but I won't put too much hopes in the air for it. It's like anything else: you put forth the time and sometimes it's fruitful and sometimes it's not, but at least I'm doing what needs to be done. What else can you ask for? Life is good. No complaints

[JMX]

This is very impressive, keep up the good work!
I don't mean to sound disrespectful in any way, but how many people actually go to bars by themselves? I know it's a good way to get used to strangers, but I've always thought that was quite a deviation from "social norms" so to speak. I always imagined I'd feel very uneasy going to a bar by myself. But then again, I could start a conversation with someone and if they ask me why I'm by myself, I could just tell them I'm waiting on a friend but he might end up not showing up or something.

[bwidger85]

Originally Posted by JMX

This is very impressive, keep up the good work!
I don't mean to sound disrespectful in any way, but how many people actually go to bars by themselves? I know it's a good way to get used to strangers, but I've always thought that was quite a deviation from "social norms" so to speak. I always imagined I'd feel very uneasy going to a bar by myself. But then again, I could start a conversation with someone and if they ask me why I'm by myself, I could just tell them I'm waiting on a friend but he might end up not showing up or something.

I had a hard time making up my mind to go alone, but when it comes down to it, it's actually easier to meet people when your by yourself -- that is, unless of course, you go with a big group of people. Is it a little strange going out alone? No, not if your having a good time and meeting people. It's like going out with a friend, instead you have the whole bar to befriend instead of just hanging around one person -- nothing wrong with that.

I've made up my mind, and I'm going for it. Why would someone go out of their way to be disrespectful towards me? Because they got problems, not me, and who really cares? It's all about meeting the people who are open and friendly, and the bars of full of those type of people. I've finally come to understand that with anyone, including women, you have to look at their personality the same way you would anyone else: some suck and some don't, and it's really as simple as that. Some people are open and some aren't. Some people want to waste their time hating on others and others think that's a waste of energy. I don't have SA, I'm only shy if I want to be, and life is too short not to go after the things you want. I have no time constraints on meeting anyone because that's out of my hands. I like to post and talk about stuff I've experienced and that's the only reason why this thread is still alive.

[bwidger85]

Ok, so I went out again alone tonight. I only had 7 dollars to spend for the evening. Got there around 11:30 and left around 12:45am. Managed to text a buddy of mine who was there briefly but left due to some beer concerns, so I was left to go sit at the bar alone.

As I went up to the bar I ordered my drink and started chatting up a guy next to me, which I never received his name, but I know he was from Arabia and he was going for his masters in business information or something. Anyways, chatting with him for about 45mins but the bar wasn't hoping too much. There were a couple of cute girls but I wasn't really ready to talk to any of them because I was preparing to be there longer. Unfortunately, my 7 dollars ran out quick. Anyways, while I was there some girls stood right beside the Arabian dude and ordered him a drink (obviously a pickup move), and I thought that was pretty cool. His didn't do anything but drink it and shrug like he was about to hurl, so that was pretty funny. I also had a couple girls stand next to me but of course I positioned myself at the worst part of the bar -- the corner -- and so when the ladies stood next to me they only stood there for about 15-20 seconds before they saw a better opening at the bar to grab the bartender's attention. Whew, a couple of them were really hot too! You know, I'm not THAT shy that I won't strike up a conversation with them but I literally didn't have time as they moved on quickly. I even had one girl eye me at the other end of the bar but I wasn't really motivated to talk to her. I ended up leaving around 12:40am with no cash because I spent it all, and so my night was pretty much over. I told the Arabian guy I was there by myself and he said he was there alone too so it was cool.

So here's the most important aspect of this story: what did I learn? Well, I learned that I should bring more cash next time. I learned better hours to come and I learned that I shouldn't position myself in the corner of the bar. I had a couple of opportunities to just walk up and strike up conversation with some ladies around me but wasn't focused on that this time around. I've learned that Tuesdays are ladies' night (hehe). Ok, I guess I didn't learn too much but the plot thickens...

I've waited all week to head out downtown and I was really excited. I'm not bummed about it though. I plan on going out again alone tomorrow. The time, however, I'm going to do a few things I typically wouldn't do just to see what happens. After all, it's all about trying new things when your learning. Perhaps I'll approach groups of people and just ask a girl within the group if she'd like to get a drink with me (I've seen my friend do this successfully). Perhaps I'll make it a point to approach any woman with or without company, in the mist of conversation with someone else, or literally walk over the other end of the bar to a girl who's simply ordering a drink and just talk to her. My current philosophy is that this approach is intrusive, but screw it. Case in point, I want to try different things and learn and grow, adapt and gain more confidence. Tonight I saw plenty of women sitting down in a group of people -- perhaps I should of just approached them sitting down in the mist of conversation and ask if she'd like to get a drink? Come on, I want to learn from this, and so I suppose I have to test my boundaries and evolve. I plan on writing down some goals (dares) tomorrow and test them out just to see what happens. After all, I've proven to myself a zillion of times that things change dramatically even with the smallest of changes or views. Who says I can't do this or that? Who says I'm weird for this or that? Test my boundaries and see what happens. I'll try to post an update tomorrow. I'll cash my check so I'll have more money this time too

[bwidger85]

I just got done reading some of my previous posts. I've developed a little since the beginning. I feel I am confident enough now to have good conversations with anyone in bars, which was a big desire of mine. Now, I just have to do the approaching. Let's see where this takes me...

[illusoryman]

Good on you bwidger! That takes a lot of courage going by yourself, and it sounds like it's finally paid off!

[Phibes]

I'd go out tonight but I'm too poor. I should go gamble my last few dollars away and hope I win something lol.

[JMX]

Wow, very nice. I don't think I'll ever grow the balls to go to a bar by myself, but maybe I will some day. It seems that's the best (and probably only) way to meet new people.

[bwidger85]

I ended up going alone again last night but didn't do anything different from the other night. I walked into a different bar this time but everyone was sitting down, crowded at the bar and in groups or pairs of two. My first move was to the bar to order a drink only to realize that I'll have to down it because I already made the decision that I wasn't going to interrupt anybody's gathering at such a quiet and low-key place. I saw a couple of people just starring at me as I stood as the only unpaired individual in the entire bar watching tv and sipping on a glass of miller. My whole thought was to down the beer and leave right after, and so I did. After which, I went to the bar I had gone on the night before only to walk in less enthused and unengaged. I ordered another drink but this time didn't sit at the bar and stood with my back against the wall thinking how fast I could chug this beer and leave.

What is interesting about my experience was that I am not really nervous about going, or even standing there by myself, but I honestly don't have any ambition to talk to anyone sometimes. I saw some women sitting down by the window but they were paired in fours and I didn't have the gall to walk over, interrupt their conversation and bud in. This may be a limiting belief, but I see no logic or excitement in doing so. I honestly feel like my only hope is to just sit at the bar for a LONG time next time until an opportunity presents itself. I don't feel like it's socially acceptable to bud into a crowded table with a group of people I don't even know and expect them to all conversate with me. There is probably a way of thinking and doing it that is normal but I haven't thought of it yet and so I'm not enthused about it. This may have a little to do with approach anxiety but it seems more like it's just a bad idea to do it. Still, I can't ignore that I'm more comfortable in a super-crowded bar where hardly anyone can recognize I'm solo; in which I can slip and slide into and out of conversations with people randomly without being noticed. I know it has a lot to do with being embarrassed, but it honestly seems like the only way to meet women in bars! lol. I guess I could make it more easy on myself if I told myself the reason why women go in groups with other women is to meet men, but how correct would I be?

I promise, one day I'll do something out of the ordinary. I'm not giving up. At times like this I traditionally make excuses for why I'm not doing the things I said I was going to do, but there are no excuses. What gets me is why the heck am I waiting all week till 12am to walk into a bar and interrupt some ladies at a table when I can do this at a more convenient time at a restaurant or something? LOL. Heck, what's the difference? I'm going to embarrass myself to death and look extremely desperate, but what's the dang difference? LOL. These bars are seeming to be only the surface of things because, in truth, everywhere is a good place to meet women. I mean, I guess I just have to do some out of the ordinary things to make it happen and stop focusing on Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays at the bar and start focusing on the weekdays as well, but I've done this before and it gets exhausting. What it truly comes down to is confidence honestly. That I can do but I just need to solely focus on being an obnoxious solo guy interrupting a "girls night out" in the mist of the entire bar just so I can prove something to myself, which, ironically, may prove that it is possible after all...

Arg, do you SEE the confusion here!?

To simplify everything I've said above: I feel like there is hope still and so I'm ambitious to go and try. I feel like there are small things I should be doing that will make a world of difference. I think the reason why there is still hope in me is because I haven't done enough approaching, which is so ironic because that's my main goal in the first place! I'm obviously doing something that isn't getting me results, and it's undoubtedly the approach thing but I also believe there is another aspect, and that is that I'm too narrow on whom I'm going to approach and where inside the bar. For instance, my main focus is that I'm going to approach a single woman sitting at the bar by herself, but women hardly sit alone in a bar by themselves, and if they do then they won't for long, so any "picture" of that is clearly unrealistic. I need to expect certain things. I need to expect that I may have to possibly approach a group of people sitting down, introduce myself, and then ask if one of the women would like to get a drink with me. My point is, I need to stop being so narrow on whom and where I'm going to approach, or simply change my focus from the bar of solo women (not realistic), to a more realistic situation that involves women in a group of people. I also need to think about what I'm going to do if it fails; should I go back to the bar and sit or should I plan on approaching a group of people one after the other? There are things I need to clear out in my head and SERIOUSLY consider them and practice them, learn from them and adapt. I've been through this before with a lot of things. The best way is to learn firsthand because assumptions will keep me in this guessing arena, and I'm getting pretty tired of it to be honest.

[bwidger85]

Ok, so I went out again tonight. I feel like I've gained a sense of familiarity and comfort within these places. At first, I am nervous but as an hour goes down I'm talking to people. I managed to go down to a dance/bar down the way from where I usually go. When I got there it was about 12:30am. Unafraid, I stood there just watching everybody on the top floor dance while I sipped on a brew. These pretty girls stood right beside me for a minute and then in front of me. I walked up to them without hesitation after a couple of minutes and said, "So, this is where the fun is, huh?". They were really nice girls (probably 19 or so). There were three of them and I talked to them for a few minutes with comfort. What's important about this interaction was that it proved to me one thing, and that's that people go to these places for fun and are excited to talk to new people. Ok, so mission accomplished! No number but I picked up a good mentality for tomorrow when I head out.

So, why am I talking to girls? Obviously, I want to meet some nice women. Tonight I didn't ask for a number. I wanted to just talk to a few. While I was standing there drinking my beer I thought of a few things I could do to get a number next time. I thought that I'll just approach like I did tonight, introduce myself, small talk, then say something along the lines of, "Hey, you come up here often?", yes or no I'll just say ask for her number and say that if I see them again I'll send them or text or something. It's one of those things to say so I don't seem intrusive. For me, it's not really about making a relationship successful from a meeting, but rather it's about gaining the confidence to know I can go to these places and meet women and get numbers, etc.

So tonight I didn't get any number BUT i did get a good mentality for next time. I've come a long way but it's not over yet. I've come from fearing of going out alone, to building confidence in conversation in these environments, to approaching and now to gaining a new mentality of ease and comfort. The next step is to ask for numbers. I don't expect to have anything happen from them. I'm simply asking for some experience and confidence regarding getting numbers. Tomorrow I'm going to think about what I want to do. I plan on approaching women like I did tonight, small talk briefly, ask if they come here often and then ask for their number (maybe not quite in that order, but yeah).

I'm almost done here. The more I go to these places alone the more I ask myself why I'm doing it in the first place. Before I left my apartment tonight I was thinking about how long I've been building up things in my head to do this type of stuff, and here I am. I'm not done yet. I absolutely need to get numbers. I know that the numbers won't be the end of the line either. I realize that I'll have to get LOTS of numbers before I even meet someone who wants to date. I realize that most women may give out their number not because they are interested but because it's not a big deal to them - almost like friendship. However, I'm taking it steps at a time. My next step is to get some numbers, so let's go!

There are still some things I need to work on both mentally viewing situations/people and also some more practice but I'm not giving up and it'll happen because I'm beginning to feel that critical mentality/confidence shift and that's when things really take off!




Here are some barriers I felt going on in my head tonight:

-Hesitant about asking for numbers in front of others



So will think of something and prepare myself for this instance when and if it happens next time. Being mentally prepared is critical in asking in real time.

[bwidger85]

(First thins is frist...screw the spellcheck and punctuation on this one...I hope I don't annoy you too much with my horrible grammer errors...)




Ok, so for the first time on this forum I just want to say...

OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH YEAAAAAHHHHH BIOOOOOOOOYYYYYIEEE!!!!!


hahaha!!!



Yup, within 30 mins of being at the bar landed a number tonight!


Once again, went out alone like I have been doing lately. After last night I figured I had to step it up. I already talked to a few ladies but never asked for their numbers. It was on my mind tonight before I went that if I talked to some ladies I'd ask. I was basically just standing there wathcing the big screen with a beer in my hand and a cute 26 year old sat right beside where I was standing to my left. So, of course, I started small talk. She was very nice (almost every girl I meet at the bar is) and she was very pretty with blonde hair hazel eyes. She kind of reminded me of that actor in the wedding singer (Christine Joan Taylor Stiller) because she looked exactly like her! I was almost going to ask ehr for her autogrpagh there for a second! But anyways, yeah, so I started talking to her for a bit and she mentioned she was from Michigan. I asked ehr why she was here in Ohio and she said for her friend, and out of nowhere come sher friend to sit beside her. She had blonde hair, tall, skinny, blue eyes and darn near 6 feet tall! So this led me to ask where her friend wasn from. Christine Joan Taylor Stiller (not her real name at the bar) introduced me to her. She had mentioned they were friends since they were seven. Anyways, long story short, the girl was blatently mentiong how she was single and that her friend (Christine Joan Taylor Stiller) was her support for the night and taking ehr out because of it. So of course the first thing in my head that popped up was, "Uh, yeah... there ya go!", so I asked her for her number, told her I wouldn't stalk her or anything (it was funny when I said it) and she gave it to me then told me to remember how to spell her name so I don't get it confused with all the other name sin my phone! LOL. SO yeah, bingo.

Well, they ask me to watch their seat while they go out to have a smoke and of course I said yes. While I was sitting there I was like, "Man, I really don't care if I'm here anymore" and so I mentioned on was on my way out to head to another bar, and that was that. Do I expect anything from this number? It'd be cool but I know from past expereince numbers don't mean too much, but she was so blatent about everything and asking me so many questions that I think she was interested. In any case, I'm happy that i did what I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO THIS WHOLE TIME!!! I DID IT AND I'M FEELING SO RELIEVED RIGHT NOW!!

I am very proud of myself. It' snot difficult and I knew it wasn't from the get go. The hardest part is just taking those first few steps and once those are over you realize how easiy it truely is. I've known this for a while because I've proven it to myself over and over and over again. What I did tonight is only a step, but these steps build so much confidence and expereince that it instills a new idology. I'm very proud of myself because it's been something I've been wanting to do for a while now, and it was very daunting for me mentally. It took a lot of guts but I've done what I've set out to do. I've gained postive expereince and confidence form doing so and this is worth a million dollars to me. Tonight I didn't need 5 or 6 numbers; just one. However, this is only the beginning. Just like when I first started, going out alone wasn't the end because I had to develop myself and build confidence. Well, I'm at that point. Today at school I evena pproach two girls sitting down outside of class. Nothing happeend from it but it was simplier than I thought.

Well, I'm super pumped now! I don't want to stop there! I want to be able to approach women I fancy whenever and whereever I choose. I don't expect it to be a homerun, and so I've learne dnot to put os much emphasis on little things anymore. My emphasis is on the other person and their character and how they treat me. I don't want someone who treats me bad. I want someone on a deeper level. I'll keep trying and I'll keep trying. Tonight was a huge pillar knocked down! A huuuuuge pillar! I will continue to learn, love and grow.

YYYYYYYEEEEEEAAAAAHHHH BOOOOOOIIIIIYYYIIIIEEE!!! haha

[AKSA]

I am in total admiration at what you’re doing.

How long did it take you to get to this stage, and what were you like previously before you started getting rid of social anxiety?